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13 June 2008

Girl Molested - My View



If I may quote from Forrest Gump, "Stupid Is As Stupid Does."

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that the girl deserved to be molested but she certainly was doing everything to NOT prevent it.

Here are some of my thoughts.

1) You asked a guy to go on a trip alone with you, then share the same room. What kind of signals were you sending to the guy?

So what if you asked for a twin room? All you need is a room to have sex. The bed was never a relevant element in this equation. Who says you can't have sex on a twin bed?

Ok, so you say, there was no twin room available. You can always insist that the guy get his own room. Why the need to have to pay for his room too? If the guy is too cheap to get a separate room, then he can jolly well sleep in the lobby or something. Don't accept crap excuses like he does not have money to get his own room. No money? Then fly to Seoul for what? If cash is so tight, wouldn't it be better to just save the air ticket money and not fly?

Yes, it was your fault to drop the ball as far as accommodation arrangements are concerned and somewhat you felt responsible since it was also you invited him along. But if this guy is any gentleman, he would have gladly offered to cough up the dough for his own room. If he is not the gentleman sort, please re-read the previous paragraph pertaining to guys who are too cheap.

2) Come on, Sister. It wasn't as bad as it seems lah. There was just fingers stroking your back and a boner pressed against your ass through the fabric. No much damage done, right?

Initially, you didn't react, what kind of signal were you sending to him then? Didn't he stop when you got up?

3) Putting up all his details was totally uncalled for. If you think by doing that, you can shame him, then think again. It only showed us that you overreacted and that we felt that your blog entry made you look ridiculous.

There is a reason why the police on both sides did nothing. That's because there was nothing to be done in the first place. Trust me and save your money on the attorneys. I think you will suffer more when the lawyers happily take away your money.

4) You. Yes you. Stop being a baby and quit whining. It was a total misunderstanding. I would have taken your side had the guy continue to molest you after you got out of bed but he didn't, did he? So why the need to stone him at the stake?

Let she with no part of the blame, cast the first stone!

I am not saying that this is entirely your fault but only that the fault originated from you. So you fell off the horse. Please pick yourself up, dust yourself, get back unto the saddle and carry on your journey.

You are an a big girl liao. You can do it.

Image Credit: http://www.thoughttheater.com
- Voxeros

1. JF left...
Thursday, 12 June 2008 3:20 pm
I m with you on this one. She is stoopid..
She failed to stop him when he stroked her back, he took it as a "come on, tiger" and promptly reacted with a boner.

She doesnt have a case, she flew a thousand miles to Seoul with him, checked into the same room with him and shared the same blanket and bed, its simply her word against his word.
Probably she wanted something else more from him and he dint succumb and hence the cry foul case.
Besides, apart from touching her back and rubbing against her, the guy did nothing.. hard to believe...


2. JayWalk left...
Thursday, 12 June 2008 4:29 pm :: 
JF: Let's me tabulate the score here. For 0, Against 1.


3. Chocolate gal left...
Thursday, 12 June 2008 4:36 pm
I agree that she is practically wrong in this case, as she didn't take care of herself and prepared the possibility that this may happen. No man is a saint.. they will try to get into your pants faster than you snapping your fingers if you didn't stop it. She should have like ask him to sleep on the floor or something and he would has got the point.

But as a gal, i know the sick feeling of being "touched" unwillingly so i do pity her too.. No one like to live with those fear, which is why she wanted something to be done...
Guess i will need to be neutral for this, okie?


4. JayWalk left...
Thursday, 12 June 2008 5:29 pm :: 
Chocolate Gal: Yah, your arguments points towards a neutral stance. Asking a guy to sleep on the floor is too much lah. Invite people to fly thousands of miles just to sleep on the floor buay gum lah. She should have 1) lay down the no-entry ground rules from day 01 or 2) ask the guy to get his own room but due to the fact that it was her cock up (no pun intended) to begin with, offer to subsidise part of his hotel room, to which the guy should be gentleman enough to decline the kind offer.

Like that then everything swee swee liao right?

For 0.5, Against 1.5


5. NNPC left...
Thursday, 12 June 2008 5:30 pm
Feel that she abit cham la. Having to endure the mental torture for so long. But then, its her fault she didn't speak up when she was getting touched. True, you may be in shock. But then not calling the cops/ hotel staff when she felt his appendage is her fault.
Worse case is the next day she acted normal.
My stand = Damn bloody slow girl who don't know how to stand up for herself. uFail!


6. mishmashtrash left...
Thursday, 12 June 2008 5:47 pm :: http://mishmashtrash.blogspot.com
stupid is the perfect word


7. JayWalk left...
Thursday, 12 June 2008 6:03 pm :: 
NNPC: I disagree lor. You are in the same room, LYING on the same bed and his boner touch you through the fabric of both parties' clothes. On what charge do you want to arrest the guy for? No evidence, no witnesses. How to prosecute?

Cherimmt: Hence the password. Thank you.

For 0.5, Against 3.5


8. naeboo left...
Thursday, 12 June 2008 6:16 pm :: http://naeboo.liquidblade.com
so bodoh ley.
  didn'teven voice out even at the very last minute of "misunderstanding" where she cld have said "hey, keep ur hands to urself" when he was trying his game on.
why so chicken shit one? if the guy was LESS gentlemanly, he wld have pressed himself on top of her and done whatever he liked ald.
i wld agree with the points jay made about being gentlemanly and offer to pay for his own room. but seeing how she didn't even make any efforts to suggest to the guy to get his own,of coz the dude thought hes gonna score some lar. she might be naively thinking to save him some money but we're all working adults now lor. this point kinda invalid liao lor. wanna save money, don't go lor. wtf
anyways, apart from stupidity and morality, legally, the girl got some recourse if she took civil action suit against the dude for trespass of person ie: battery as it covers all forms of non-consensual form of touching. (for the back-stroking and sausage-rubbing)
criminally, i don't know if got any course of action for her. i think best try for battery under tort lar.
the guy also damned stupid ley. didn't even try to talk hiao with her test water first. haha


9. spinnee left...
Thursday, 12 June 2008 6:34 pm
who in the first place ask a guy to go alone when he's not even that close?
who will even in the first place sleep with a guy if she's not even close with... ??
who's she trying to kidding... faint...


10. JayWalk left...
Thursday, 12 June 2008 10:49 pm :: 
naeboo: Want to file civil suit also difficult lah. No evidence, no witnesses. It's a case of his word against hers. How to fight the case?

spinnee: For 0.5, Against 5.5


11. naeboo left...
Thursday, 12 June 2008 10:58 pm :: http://naeboo.liquidblade.com
urr... it's not totally a matter of his/her words in law liao in assault and battery. there's technical formula they need to prove and as long as they satisfy, no need to have witnesses or evidence.
if im not wrong, the absence of "privilege" to touch a person in a certain way is enuf to prove the dude is in the wrong. since he's not even close to her, and they never had intercourse b4 and she didn't do anything ACTIVELY approving of the act, hes ald in the wrong.

it's not the plaintiff's onus to prove that he did touch her.it's the defendant's onus to prove that he got the plaintiff's consent.and no, sleeping on the same bed is not enuf to be consent however weird and "possibly inviting". consent has to be clear even to the layman.
mafan to charge him in court doesn't mean it's not possible.


12. JayWalk left...
Thursday, 12 June 2008 11:27 pm :: 
naeboo: So what happens if the guy denies touching her and accuse her of crying wolf instead?


13. Posh left...
Thursday, 12 June 2008 11:50 pm
1) If she doesn't see him more than a friend, send the correct signals and be firm. In this case, she had sent the wrong signals and mislead him to a certain extent.
2) She cannot complain about being groped because she did not send out the correct signals and let's face it, we are all adults, who are we kidding.
3 and 4) I agree its uncalled for and seriously, unless she has deep pockets, the amount of moolah that goes towards pursuing a civil suit against him is simply filling the coffers of the law firm she engage who will not give a f87k whether she wins or lose the civil suit.
Conclusion, no point crying over spilled milk, grow up and move on.


14. Ruok left...
Friday, 13 June 2008 12:04 am
why r we wasting time on this?! >.<


15. r3gular left...
Friday, 13 June 2008 12:10 am :: http://r3gular.liquidblade.com/
I agree with Jaywalk.
She's sending the wrong signal, hence the action of the guy.
I mean, speaking from the point of view from a guy, a girl invites you to a foreign country, agrees to share a room AND bed with you. And given the fact that they ain't even close, the guy must be thinking he's some lucky bastard who's gonna score on that night liao la!
My vote: Stupid girl!


16. CoWg0eSm0o left...
Friday, 13 June 2008 1:36 am
not gonna comment abt the gal's action. but stupidity ish everywhere. those farkers shld not even be allowed to inbreed lor.


17. JayWalk left...
Friday, 13 June 2008 2:29 am :: 
Posh: Yeah, so she made a mistake. Who doesn't? What's important is to just get up and move on.

ruok: We all boliao lor. So find something like this to talk kok lor....

r3gular: It was clearly a misunderstanding and so clear it up and be done with it lor.

cowgoesmoo: Now now, she just made a mistake and is whining about it. But to use the word inbreed is a bit harsh lah.

For 1, Against 9


18. Mistress Grace left...
Friday, 13 June 2008 9:47 am
Firstly, I think she is asking for it, who goes on a trip with a man and stays in the same room as him. In the first place, cant she go to seoul herself? Please lor, she is sending all the wrong signals. If I am a man, and a woman asks me to go Seoul and sleep in the same room means she is interested right.
Secondly I think she is a damn prude lor, only a boner and stroking, please lor if I sleep with a guy in the same bed and he doesn't get a boner I will feel insulted lor.
Thirdly, why do i think this is all a hoax to slime the guy.


19. JayWalk left...
Friday, 13 June 2008 9:56 am :: 
Mistress Grace: I think you will report police if the guy DIDN'T stoke and boner you!!

For 1, Against 10


20. Mistress Grace left...
Friday, 13 June 2008 10:16 am
Wah say me until like that... Well its the truth mah.


21. Jeni left...
Friday, 13 June 2008 10:29 am
I feel that she don't really know this guy very well, maybe she knows him superficially like those, "Hi, Bye." type within their group of friends but not really well like if he is attached or where he is actually working in. It is like some guesswork was involved and she is throwing out clues for people to match to the guy.

Of all the friends she had, she cant find a single girlfriend to go with her, I am ok with that but she can always ask her cousins or some other female relatives or even her mother... unless she is telling us that even her mother don't want a paid holiday from her daughter?? What about her siblings?? Single child? I cant comment on that... but i think i would approach my family members if I need to find someone to accompany me overseas.

A guy even if he is very nice, as she say that he is, as a girl, she should be more cautious and protect herself better. She claim that the hotel had mixed up the reservations and there are no more suites after her first day but I believe if she really wants to, she can always get the hotel to help her to book another suite at another hotel. If worse comes to worse, downgrade to budget hotels as she said that she don't have the funds to get 2 rooms. Seoul do have budget hotels, don't they? She did received some form of compensation, even though it is not a lot, cant she use a little to get herself 2 rooms? she was saying at US$60 a day, she don't have the budget to book 2 rooms? can you get a suite at US$60 a day?

As for the bed part, I don't know if she had got those rooms with 2 single beds or if it is a room with a queen size bed but I got the impression that they are sharing a bed. Casual friends don't share beds, if they really need to, I think she should have stated right from the start that she don't intend to start a relationship with that guy. I think John will not start anything funny if she had stated ground rules right from the start.

All in all, she may have given John indications that she may be open to something in future? A relationship perhaps? Perhaps John had misread her friendliness as being open and wont mind starting a relationship with him? There are a lot of uncertainties when I read the post but as she is the writer, everything is from her point of view which makes it hard for us to give a fair opinion if she is really molested.


22. JayWalk left...
Friday, 13 June 2008 10:42 am :: 
Mistress Grace: Indeed it's the truth! :P

Jeni: Welcome to the blog. I think you got a number of facts wrong. 1) They didn't get a suite. They originally wanted a twin-sharing room i.e. 1 regular room with 2 twin beds, usually separated by a night stand in between.

2) At USD 60 a night, I think that is budget hotel liao, given then the girl is unlikely to venture into hotels outside of the capital city. But seriously, USD 60 a night is damn cheap already. Obviously, this girl doesn't travel much and as such is pretty oblivious to the various market prices outside of Singapore?

So anyway, if the hotel is the one who screw up the reservations, they are under obligation to get it right even if it means moving your business to a competitor hotel and that includes the cab fare to get there. As for matching hotel prices at the new place, it is probably on a case by case basis and a dash of your own negotiating skills. However, difference will not be significant as transfer of hotel would probably be within the same price category.

She just updated on her blog again as she blames herself for the whole mess, calling her a bitch, whore and all sorts of other name.

Man... we have a drama queen here.

So it was a mistake resulting for a case of mixed signals. Is there really a night to put up such a big tragic drama for the world-at-large? Talk about undergoing surgery for a broken nail. Geez.....

For 1, Against 11.


23. JayWalk left...
Friday, 13 June 2008 10:48 am :: 
Jeni: My bad. She did write "suite" but I believe that is a result of her unfamiliarity with the various travel lingo. There is absolutely no way you can get a suite at USD 60 in the capital city of Seoul.

Correct me if I am wrong, especially for those in the hotel line. There is no such thing as a twin bed suite. All suites are 1 x King size beds. Not even Queen size if they can help it.


24. Vandalin left...
Friday, 13 June 2008 11:31 am :: http://vandalin.blogspot.com
Ok. Gonna play Devil's advocate.
Asking a guy to go on a trip with you, only cos she trusts him to NOT be a sleazebag.
Same bed, don't mean you can touch. Same way, silence does not mean consent.
Admittedly the chick didn't do everything to prevent the situation from happening, I'd plead innocence. Hindsight, frankly, is 20-20. A lot of coulda, shoulda, wouldas can be given AFTER the incident. On the spot play, I'd say all your planning can go out the window.
Now this LAST one I can't fucking stand. Justifying by "I got my needs?" Fuck off. I got my needs too and that don't give me the right to jump the bones of any hot chick that doesn't say no right?
When in doubt, FUCKING ASK. This isn't a rape scene roleplay dammit.


25. Mistress Grace left...
Friday, 13 June 2008 11:58 am
Vandalin, yeah I agree with you. However, he did stroke her back which she did not complain cos she mentioned she didn't know what to do. She could have said no. IN this case, she was sending a signal that she was comfortable with him doing that. Its all a case of wrong signals being sent. So..she has to be blamed in some ways. In addition, lets give John some credit, he could have pushed his limits but he backed off. If he tried forcing himself on her then ok he is should be burned on the stake but he didn't.
Frankly I think she is just making a mountain out of a molehill. Its liken to getting brushed by a man on the MRT accidentally and screaming molestation!


26. JayWalk left...
Friday, 13 June 2008 12:31 pm :: 
Vandalin: My main gist of the entry here is that I felt unjust for the guy to be 100% at fault. Actually, if you think about it I would apportioned 10% of the fault to the girl for dropping the ball on the accommodations and write off the remaining 90% to misunderstanding.

You are right. When in doubt, just ask "Eh, ai sio pu, mai?" can liao.

Mistress Grace: I agree that the guy did the right thing by backing off once the girl FINALLY said "No". Gotta give him credit there.

For 2, Against 11.


27. Vandalin left...
Friday, 13 June 2008 12:58 pm :: http://vandalin.blogspot.com
jay and grace: valid points both. I'd probably put it to 10% guy, 10% gal, 80% misunderstanding.
now this i gotta say is totally on the fault of the guy. justifying the misunderstanding probably made it a lot worse. and saying "i've got my needs", that's utter and complete BS.

It's like an abusive bf going "you made me angry. now why did you go and do that for? making me hit you?" and just cos he backed off and didn't kill his gf does not make him the model of gentlemanliness or restraint.
Mistress Grace: Consider this the case of the "deer in the headlight" syndrome. had a friend who's a brown belt in karate who was in the lift with a guy who was staring and wanking off. mind went blank. only thing she could do was get out the instant the lift door opened.


28. JayWalk left...
Friday, 13 June 2008 6:51 pm :: 
Vandalin: I have to admit, the "I have needs" excuse is really lame. A man should just cut to the chase and ask directly. Ai sio pu mai?

In the guys case, he should have just apologise and explained that he read the signals wrong.


29. r3gular left...
Saturday, 14 June 2008 12:07 am :: http://r3gular.liquidblade.com/
+1 to vandalin and Mistress Grace.


30. JayWalk left...
Saturday, 14 June 2008 1:16 am :: 
ALL: I replied this in an email from someone who is a friend of Jean but chose not to reveal his/her identity.

I do have to clarify the label "stupid". It was not meant in a put down way but rather a why-didn't-give-it-more-thought way. So hope that clears the air somewhat.

Anyway, I would like to paste my response to this friend here as my final and closing comment to this matter. I do concede that my initial entry was not the most articulate but I slowly fine tuned my views after all the invaluable discussions with everybody here.

So here goes:

+++++



Hi,

I believe the consensus is that there was a misunderstanding between the two of them and that signals was wrongly sent.

Jean is naive. Yes. "f**king, bitchy, slutty, whining whore"? Definitely not. I think she was being too hard on herself as far as the subsequent post was concerned.

Yes, she made a mistake and was touched inappropriately as a result. Sorry to hear that.

What we disagree is that the guy was being portrayed as the absolute villain. Don't the guy deserve some credit for stopping when she FINALLY made it clear that she doesn't want intimacy?

Had she been unluckier and encountered a bad guy instead, she would have been raped.

I guess, we just sought to seek some redress for the poor guy who too is a victim here as well as a result of the post, considering that fact that he wasn't given a chance to defend himself on her blog.

Then again, to be fair to Jean, we are basing our conclusion only on her account of what happened. We didn't get a chance to hear his side of the story or if Jean has watered down her version on account of not wanting further embarrassment or even humiliation.

Still, whatever happened has happened and we only wish for Jean to be strong and move on with her life rather then being hung up over what we feel (not necessarily what she feels) is a trivia matter.

Perhaps, we need friends like you to be around her to give her moral support at this time.

We wish her all the best.

Jay



+++++


31. thiang left...
Saturday, 14 June 2008 1:31 am :: http://thiang.blogspot.com
I can't see her post? Hmm. But judging from your POV, you are right.


32. cakie left...
Saturday, 14 June 2008 2:26 am
i'd just like to state that both jay and i have an issue with the way she handled this post-incident (blogging about it with the guy's details) more than anything else.

the blog entry was unfair, given the way she described it, a corollary would be that it was a misunderstanding. posting all his details was uncalled for and malicious. in jay's words, the punishment did not fit the crime. i agree. defending the guy was only to show that the big fuss she kicked up was unwarranted.
i do hope she moves on and learns from this.

ps. jay i hope i reflected what we discussed accurately! :)


33. naeboo left...
Sunday, 15 June 2008 2:11 am :: http://naeboo.liquidblade.com
like i said, it's up to the defendant to prove it didn't happen if he denies it.not the plaintiff
im not a lawyer. how i know whats more to do with this case? but if she wants to pursue it, it's alw possible. after all, it's just a theoretical option for her.


34. naeboo left...
Sunday, 15 June 2008 2:39 am :: http://naeboo.liquidblade.com
oh gawd.
she whines so much. such a trivial matter some more. she seems like the type who can kill herself if some apek rubbed his sausage on her in public.
whinewhinewhine
makes u wanna slap her a few times across the face for being so melodramatic. grow up! she shld count her blessings that the dude didn't even try anything more or else she got sthg more serious to whine about


35. JayWalk left...
Sunday, 15 June 2008 8:10 am :: 
Thiang: For 2, Against 12.

Cakie: I think the main gist of your conclusion was that while the guy did make a mistake as a result of a misunderstanding, the punishments meted out on her blog with full detail disclosure was uncalled for.

naeboo: If you were Jean, what would have you done? Kick him in the nuts and call it a night?


36. naeboo left...
Sunday, 15 June 2008 11:50 pm :: http://naeboo.liquidblade.com
if it's me, the guy wldnt dare to even think abt rubbing my back coz if i have no interest in sleeping with him, ground rules wld have been laid down b4 we even went to korea. man, shes so lame


37. JayWalk left...
Monday, 16 June 2008 10:34 am :: 
Naeboo: I think the bottom line here is to settle everything swee swee up front first. Want to rubba, don't want to rubba. Early early say mah!


38. naeboo left...
Monday, 16 June 2008 6:25 pm
yah lor. who the fuck goes to a foreign country with a guy she hardly knows without setting ground rules beforehand, never said anything upfront later when stuck in same room and then go ard saying hes being a dick.
idiot


39. JayWalk left...
Monday, 16 June 2008 10:06 pm :: 
naeboo: I supposed we meet all kinds of people in the world as we go along.


40. naeboo left...
Monday, 16 June 2008 11:42 pm :: http://naeboo.liquidblade.com
i meet her, i punch her in the womb so she canot reproduce. kns
did u write the mystery parody?? ur writing style shows and it also shows the person's been following chocolate judas bcoz of the "suck monkey balls" phrase. haha


41. JayWalk left...
Tuesday, 17 June 2008 3:33 am :: 
naeboo: Yeah. It's me although I am not ready to own up openly yet. So shhh.... for now.

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